Overhyped/ underrated knives

i dunno. in daves thread about takeda he mentioned that he noticed a change in grind around 2011 i think.

 

My guess? Takeda realized that the market is broad enough now that most buyers wouldn't know the difference.

 

Takeda himself said it was too thick and apologized for it so obviously it wasn't intentional to make it that way. I think if he's the one making your knife, you got a good one. If it's one of his apprentices then it's iffy. Just my opinion. The question still remains though, was it worth $400? It was a gift from my husband and I appreciated that he knew I inquired about it and wanted to try one so he got it as a Christmas gift. That being said, we both agreed that if I'm going to drop that kind of cash or more on a knife then it's going to be from one of our resident bladesmiths.



ETA: keep forgetting underrated....Yamawaku. I was gifted a 210 gyuto from a KKF member and really enjoy it. It was the first blade that actually left pretty decent knife marks in my board. Slices through potatoes like butter.

 

erilyn75, yours was....weird. the entire blade was too thick. i wouldve returned it myself to takeda if mine arrived like that. but i dont think your takeda is representative of most of the newer takedas on the market. newer takedas definitely have an unpopular grind that i happen to like, but after the weird bevels the knife is ground thin still.

 

all this yamawaku talk has me curious. anybody have a 240 or 270 gyuto? i havent been able to get alot of details about the knife in regards to blade height, choil shot, profile etc etc...sounds like a seriously underrated knife.

 

But honestly, what did you expect of him?

 

No kidding. Fits in with my hypothesis, I'd say.

 

yamawaku are indeed interesting, but only see 210 on ebay which is rather a huge let down.

 

I have a 270 yanagi. It's freaking perfect. I tried to order a 240mm Gyuto, and 330mate never took my money, so I don't know what the deal is.

 

do they make sujis?

 

You guys realize that Shosui Takeda does not make each knife, right?? If you look at his Facebook pages and stuff, he is CONSTANTLY at different shows and rarely in the shop anymore. They have had some turn over in their shop with workers leaving (sometimes with no advance notice) recently and having to hire/train new people. I also saw him post that the people rotate through the various jobs in the shop periodically. So one person may be forging one month, installing handles the next, grinding the blades the 3rd month, heat treating the 4th, etc and different people do things differently. With Shosui not there constantly, he isn't giving the same attention to detail to each knife and each step of the process. Part of the process of growing big quickly, having to replace/train people and still being on the knife show circuit since he makes other knives besides kitchen knives. So yes, there are some issues there, but many stem from Shosui not being in the shop constantly and people rotating through the various jobs. This is why there is a huge variation in the Takedas we are seeing.

I know Panda ordered a custom knife from Takeda and was specific about what he wanted in terms of the profile and was sent a stock knife for the same price instead that needed a TON of flattening and some thinning to make it perform well that wasn't close to what he wanted, so sometimes things get lost in the translation sometimes, too.

Takeda can make a good knife, but it's some of the other craftsmen in the shop that are the issue it seems!

 

I use the name "Takeda" in the sense of his workshop and brand, not necessarily him, specifically. It's disheartening that custom orders have had similar issues to the standard work.

 

If you can manage to get in contact with somebody, I'm sure one could be made, but I've never seen one offered as a stock item.

 

Oh so thats why the products are in the 300-400 dollars range?

 

I agree very disappointing to custom order a certain profile and then receive a standard profile knife, but I don't know if the translation was what caused the issue, or one of the other workers saw the order and misunderstood it (oh yeah, we make those already, ship this one!) type of mistake or what. I know makers get busy and I have gotten stuff that was way off profile/length/handle shape from what I ordered from makers in the US before, so mistakes do happen!

Yup, prices went way up, but I have to wonder if that was done to slow orders down a bit or more profit, expand the shop/staff or all three? If his knives were more in the $250 range, I think a lot more people would order them. As we have seen, it's difficult to keep up with supply and demand and usually the quality can suffer, especially if the Boss isn't there each day to check things out and stop the mistakes before they get shipped.

 

What would be a suggestion for a great underestimated 240 western gyuto be in the sub 200.00 range?

 

Hmmm. Good question Jim! Honest answer, I don't know! I have tried (or spoken to friends with them) several over the years and none really wowed me. Many in this price range/style seem to perform on par with what they are; nothing comes to mind immediately as underestimated that I have seen/tried/spoken to friends who had one. Kinda disappointing, but that is a gap in the market. Handle F&F often tend to be fairly rough and the blade grinds are often flat and get to be wedgey or have lots of sticktion.

Most western handled knives under $200 are fairly well known; Kikuichi Elite Carbon and TKC, Masamoto VG vs the Carbon series, Gesshin series, Hiromoto AS, Tojiro DP series, Carbonext, Suisin Inox, etc. There are other makers, but I haven't seen them to know how they perform. Misono UX10 is Overrated IMHO; steel was nothing special, F&F was nothing special on the one I got to check out, nothing really wowed me over the other ones listed above as being exceptional except the high price! I know people like the Misono Swedish Carbon line though! Blazens were very popular years ago, but higher than $200 IIRC.

I used to prefer Western handled knives when I first got into Japanese blades. The blades are usually fairly flat ground and spine/choil are often very sharp and the handle F&F can be lacking. My Kikuichi Carbon Elite was horrible with sticktion, I had a lot of trouble removing potatoes that were stuck hard onto the blade. Handle material is often slightly shrunk and not completely flush with the tang and the rivet/no epoxy method of handle install allows the handle tang to stand proud with very sharp edges. I had a Kanetsune 210mm Blue steel Core/SS Clad western handled gyuto and that wasn't bad. It was crazy thin, but still cut so so only, nothing really awe inspiring for how thin it was. I find many western handled Japanese knives have lackluster geometry and fairly poor F&F in the handle area. Suisin seems to get very high ratings for handle F&F, the Masamoto VG I saw wasn't too bad, either handle wise.

 

Tanaka g3 is available with western handle, but needs work done to it.
Tojiro dp is good steel but the grind is flat.
masamoto vg has excellent profile but needs some love as well and isn't the easiest to sharpen. The HC is a good carbon but needs to be reground/thinned.

if you like lasers there is a kohetsu 210 in blue#2 available for $100 quite good, if it sells I'm sure 240 will be made.

 

Honestly, I think the Tojiro DP falls in this category.