Overhyped/ underrated knives

I didn't know that. thanks for pointing it out.

 

Black steel comes up occasionally in Katana conversations. It's not a new steel, though I can't say I know much about it. Not sure how much you can draw from not knowing the specifics of the steel? There are many knives that the steel and/or composition is kept secret. Konosuke HD, TKC, Geshin Kagero don't publish the details of their steel. Are they all over rated just because they don't list the composition?

I have to disagree. Fact of the mater is that if a makers name is published than others will copy. Keeping some a secret to retain a competitive edge says little about the knife itself, but rather the cut throat nature of business. I don't recall Maksim listing the name of blade smith for the Singatirin on the web site. I don't enjoy it any less as a result. The name behind the blade means little to me and it's all about how the blade performs for me. I do understand that others may be more interested in the status of the name on their knife rather than it's performance. To each their own, I don't mind more unknown blade smith knives being in stock for me to try out

I had the same hope Spaz. Even as casual observer, I can tell there is no shortage of bad blood between the 2 sides. Sadly, it's clear my hopes of the petty back and forth that benefits no one coming to an end is not likely to be anything more than a pipe dream.

 

I cannot imagine anyone stealing ideas from www.if-you-dont-know-abything-about-knives-me-neither-but-I-have -plenty-expensive-ones-to-go.com

Ive heard it happened the other way around though haha. Im in position to take the piss you see. I dont get paid for advertising of any sort, I dont sell any products on internets, I can just laugh.

Just look about howe many brands the togo.com sells and find me another webshop that has equally many.

Therefore, black steel is just bollocks.

 

One can always make an educated guess on a steel, or send in a sample for analysis. With Konosuke HD, TKC and Kagero, I'm pretty certain what the steels are (and with one of them I know precisely what steel it is). I know nothing about "black steel."

 

One man's overrated is the next guy's underrated.
This thread is evidence of that

Personally I have 4 Takeda's and two Moritaka's.
They were the first Japanese knives I bought after using Shun, Dick and Victorinox for ages.

I enjoyed them all when starting out.
Since then I have moved on to other makers, but they are still in my drawer, and they still perform ok.
Not stellar, but decent enough.

What I would call overrated is basically any custom out there.
Having tested a few myself, none have been an inkling better than my production knives.

Making a one-off knife costs what it does, depending on where it is actually made, and what the maker wants for profit on said piece.
Owning a one-off is, to some (myself included), a thing of value in and of itself.
But that does not mean they'd perform any better than stock knives.
Heck, I've handled custom knives that would be hard to call proper cutting tools.
And with a pricetag that would buy a full set of quality Japanese cutlery that would make most any chef happy.

And don't get me started on "Damascus"...
What a freakin hype.
I've yet to see any good lucking kitchen knife in "Damascus"
Pattern welded steel, which would be the proper term for what most makers are putting out there, on large knives like Gyoto's looks about as classy as a mullet...

 

on large knives like Gyuto's looks about as classy as a mullet... https://www.google.com/search?q=mullet haircut&rlz=1T4SKPB_enAU379AU379&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=Z0FKU7aVEY718QXSyoGQCQ&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ&biw=1366&bih=543#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=rVoaFkNsDvj72M%3A;zOZURRqNWSvaBM;http%3A%2F%2Fenglishfromfriends.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F07%2Fmullet.jpg;http%3A%2F%2Fenglishfromfriends.com%2Fblog%2F2010%2F07%2F14%2Fhaircut%2F;280;356
Off topic but you are saying this is not classy ...

2

Sorry I had a laugh when you quoted mullets

 

Business in the front, party in the back :k

Couldn't help myself lol

 

I need to try more makers but I would say it all comes down to function over form and so many knives cut and cut well... A lot of knives you probably wouldn't know any better unless you tried a lot of others.

 

I keep reading this thread and every time I do, I have bullet points pop into my head. Here they are this time:

Takeda knives can be fantastic. Seriously, just ask the vendor to pick out a good one. Maybe right now they are being made thick BTE, but that wasn't always the case. In fact, I've told many people to buy Takedas, and I've sold a few, myself. When they are good, they are damned good. Different, but good.

Itinomonn is a single maker. Real name? Who cares. Great knives.

Also, we need to be more specific; are we talking overhyped by food network/foodie types, or by guys who discuss stropping mediums and metallurgy on Internet forums? This changes everything. For example, Shun knives are very good. However, we mock them and turn up our nose to them, while "the masses" think they are the best knives available. The fact of the matter is, they cut really well, have good steel and world class fit and finish. BUT, we don't like their profiles (which is a hugely sweeping and broad comment, because of their multiple lines), we call them chippy (which is arguable), and we call them overpriced (which is a matter of opinion - not to mention they can be found at very good prices when on sale). So, Shun are both overhyped and under-rated.

Rami (I believe you started this thread), these types of threads always go this way, and inevitably turn into "monkey poop flinging" sessions. However, that is half the fun. I won't fling poop in one direction or the other, but rather, throw it haphazardly into the air to land on anyone and everyone, at the poop's discretion. Share the poop. That's what I always say.

 

That the Voice of reason. My reasoning is that I can't try every single maker out that and I am flexible enough to learn new techniques and care enough of my knives. I see some really good stuff that I would like to try but don't want to spend 200-400 to try out a gyuto. Thus want to limit my choices.

 

"Share the poop."

Tom, that should be your signature. :thumb

 

I have to disagree with function trumping form. When I am evaluating a knife, I try to consider the six values for a blade that Shinichi Watanabe has written about on his website:

• Look
• Touch
• Use
• Use long time
• Maintenance
• Resale value

How does this knife look? It’s overall appearance, is it attractive? If the ‘look’ is not good, the next five values will be wasted even if they all are incredibility wonderful.

Touch and how does this knife feel? When you hold it by the handle, ask yourself, “Is the handle comfortable or not?" If it is comfortable, you will be motivated to buy.

How is this knife in actual use? If you buy a knife, you'll be itching to use it soon. And when you actually cut vegetables or meats, how does it feel?

How long will this knife last in normal usage? Every knife has a given lifetime. After using this knife for several years what will be its condition?

Can you maintain this knife or will you have to have a professional maintain it?

What is the knife’s anticipated resale value?

 

Talk to Jon anyway. He is more than helpful going above and beyond. For Jon it's not about making a sale. You may not buy from him this time but who knows what the future may hold. Talk to Jon.

 

I agree with Birnando about damascus overall and probably agree with regard to custom knives.

I'll throw in another, perhaps obvious, opinion. Nothing of mine really blows me away. Even my best cutters crack big (5-6cm or more) carrots a little when doing thick sections, they all encounter a bit of resistance in thick targets, most will stick a little to some things regardless of surface finish or hollowing. They don't really fall through food, though some definitely are a smoother push or pull. If I'm bashing the board (which I hate doing), my super lasers (Takamura, Yusuke) feel weak because they don't have the blade heft, but if I'm doing my normal slow cutting, the lasers feel the smoothest and I really like using them.

I order every new knife thinking I'll finally get one that cuts everything with no effort. I know it's stupid, but I do it anyway. I get knives from makers who are deservedly hyped but that might not actually suit my cutting style (will my Harner resist sticking? Will the DT be thin enough?), but rarely stop and actually think about it. When I get a new knife and inevitably feel, "yep, this is a knife", I get the feeling that most good knives are overrated.

 

I'm sure you have a lot of poop going on in your life right now already Tom!

 

In all seriousness, Tom probably has a poop journal right now.

I realize this thread has probably run its course but the Suisin high carbon series is a tremendous value and rarely discussed. Available at Korin.

 

Oh, I have another one. Surprisingly, for under-rated, I say Hiromoto AS. I'm really impressed with these. The more I get to know them, the more I like them.

Oh, and I do have a poop journal....

ALSO, Rick, I think I will make that my sig line. Hahaha

 

I can't believe how much money people invest in pimping out a hiromoto, spending more than the knife itself. I love AS steel but hiro version is soft and profile/geometry is nothing to write home about. I did order one myself for daily home use so not downing it, just maybe the hype could use some tempering.

I'm with John about function over form, but lets not kid ourselves most people have a vanity factor in their knife choices.

 

Well function + form is not too bad. Think of it as a scale with one somewhere in the middle.