School me on cleavers!

Those hateful bigots!
(guessing you meant hamono [ha-mono, 刃物, edged goods])

 

yes... that's what I meant.

 

XooMG, do you happen to have a link to the knife?

 

Sadly it's not something sold online that I know of, except in a Taiwanese auction site at likely won't do international shipping.

I don't know for sure but some eBay cleavers look fairly similar in geometry even though they are only selling VG-10 AFAIK.

 

Another local find. Unknown "pure carbon" steel. Unknown hardness, maybe rubbish, but $13 and sold as a user with very rough grinding. Pretty thin...the coin is ~1.57mm

 

I am still trying to get my head around whats makes a good cleaver i made these two last year a frind wanted one as a grift for his wife so I made two and I think they are more like vegetable cleavers then heavy use cleavers but he like it. next time I make one I make it a bit thicker and perhaps a bit bigger. these where made using scraps bits of damascus put in a can with 4800kc powder

 

They look very interesting, Mr. Lisch. I'm not certain my hand would like the large choil radius, as the typical grip is more of a pinch grip with one or two fingers on the blade. A more abrupt angle there gives the grip a better "lock" and may be more agile and controllable. I'd reduce the corner radius to about finger-size, and keep the juncture between blade and tang somewhere >3.5mm thick so a little rounding of the choil feels cozy. Your handles seem more ideal for a hammer grip, which I've seen in heavy choppers, but not really on thinner blades.

This is more for veg cleavers; I don't know much about heavier styles. Actually, I don't know much about veggie cleavers either...but maybe I'm right by accident.

 

Thank's I think you may be right about the radius and I never even thought that it might be held in a pinch grip. when I make the next one i will keep that in mind

 

They look really cool, David. Just add your flair to a "traditional Chinese cleaver", and you'll be well on your way. With a cleaver, it's more of an extended pinch grip, with a finger (or two) running down the blade face, and the thumb on the opposite side. I'm not cleaver expert, but I'm planning on giving them another try, just so I know my product/potential product base even better than I already do.

 

kind of a peace sign grip for stability

 

important for food not to stick to a cleaver so grind geometry is important. In a regular knife, it wont stick too long as there is less surface area but in a cleaver you can have a 5" pc of vegetable stuck all the way

 

There is a pretty sweet NOS Forgecraft cleaver up on the bay right now. I have one that's been thinned, and it gets a fair amount of use.

 

I agree...geometry is important with the surface area involved. Surface finish only helps so much; the cleaver I posted above is in about as rough a finish as I've found, and it is still pretty sticky. Having something like a crisp bevel transition/shinogi can help a lot, in my limited experience. Unfortunately with very thin blades, there's limited space to play with geometry (though I think it's still possible).

 

question: i see two types of cleavers generally. One is the superfine, superthin cleaver which is good for slicing but will chip on bones. The other is the German type heavy cleaver which can be used on butchery, lamb and beef bones. Wonder if there is a in-between type which can do both? meaning it will handle a bone without too much trouble. I see some local butchers who are like magic with bones. They bring the cleaver down lightly on one side of the bone, then turn the bone over and bring the cleaver down a bit harder on this side and voila- the bone is cut clean thru without any bone fragments. Anyone know a better technique for cutting bones?

 

I'm no expert (standard disclaimer), but in Chinese knives there's an intermediate knife called a wenwudao (文武刀) that is thicker than a slicer (piandao 片刀). Some are thinner in the front and thicker in the back for dual purpose, but some are sold as general use pieces that are a little thinner than bone choppers (kandao 砍刀 or duodao 剁刀). Some piandao also come in thicker sizes; I see a #3 knife (sanhaodao 三號刀) sold locally that is thicker, but still not really meant for bone contact, AFAIK.

I am guessing the naming conventions change a bit by region; I've never chatted kitchen knives with anyone from mainland China or Hong Kong.