Tamahagane Knives?

What a great discussion!!! Is there a metallurgist member that might chime in? Sounds very subjective to me. I have a number of different steels in my rotation, that are used for job specific duties. I will say that with the right approach, patience and time, I can achieve just about any edge I desire on any of the aforementioned knives. Just my two cents.

 

I agree Robert...pretty much universally. And while I'm certain I'm guilty on occasion of being overly general in my commentary in a metallurgical context...it's mostly for the purpose of getting the point across to a crowd of mixed experience. If we were to hold a discussion with me writing a new set of fuel/spark tables for my bike...the discourse would probably seem pretty dumbed down to a pro tuner lol.

Anyhow though...I'd love to hear your thoughts on AS. I've never even looked into it as it's not available at any sort of reasonable price point for me. I do have a stick of Blue #2 I am going to use with stainless san mai...but I figured I'd do my research on that as I got closer to using it.

 

I didn't mean you or anyone in particular was oversimplifying...we all are really. I just think that sometimes when we convey that to users, it is picked up by reviewers and copywriters, where it gets bandied about as pseudoknowledge that can be misleading.

[opinions on AS and Aogami2 removed for being trite]

 

I was actually considering using nickel ribbon in my laminates to deal with carbon diffusion. For me...a .95% to 1.2% carbon content is the sweet spot for low alloy steels like I prefer.

That said...I wasn't going to use AS either lol.

 

Sorry for getting back late.
Its good to read you do your job well Cris
I used comlicated steel with super in the name as an example of how the evolution of commerce is pushing us in the way of the more complicated and pricy the better...
For me I like things kept simple I know my food looks elaborate sometimes but its really just simple for some boring food.
And I thing for knives the simpler the better too. So I dont mean the American made steel is worse or anything like that, how could I without any real practical comparison?
I just say: make it harder, sexier, slap a proper grind on it and am happy camper. Dont make no politics around it, its enough of that around.

As to the sharpening, take other white steel knife side by side with masamoto, it might feel as sharp, but when cutting, it all changes. And Im not fanboying Masamoto, I honestly think they ride the brand fame and sell cheap knives for many many dineros. Clever stuff. But theres something about them that if you use two knives blindfolded you know which is masas edge. I can sent a slicer your way, what you say to that?

 

I honestly agree with you my friend. That's one of the things I like about the AISI W2 and W1 I use. They really are simple steels. The only difference between W1 and the Japanese white steels are the level of carbon (in my batch...in some batches it's as much as 1.25% carbon I think), and the fact that it isn't 'super clean'. There are trace alloying elements throughout...though it's generally cleaner than say, 1095. W2 is almost the 'blue #2' to our W1. It has similar carbon levels to W1, but has vanadium and chromium while W1 is technically clean.

The main difference between my W2 and say, Japanese blue #2, is that my steel has relatively little in the way of carbide formers, whereas the HUGE amount of tungsten in the blue #2 (there's more tungsten than carbon...and there's a TON of carbon lol!!) can literally make or break a knife in the heat treat. Properly thermal cycled, heat treated and tempered blue #2 could be amazing!!! Heated in a forge to the color of a blood moon in October, then quenched in who knows what...and tempered to the color of wheat straw under the autumn sun??...who the hell knows what it'll turn out like. But I promise if it is heat treated that way, it's not going to be being utilized to its full potential unless they get very lucky. I'm certain I'm exaggerating there a little in regards to the heat treat the knives get in Japan for sure lol...we all know there are a LOT of great knives that come out of that country!! I just think they might not all be reaching the full potential of the steel...and that maybe the white steel is often considered superior simply because the blue steel isn't taken advantage of.

(Disclaimer!! All statements above are GENERALIZATIONS! )

I would love, love love love to get ahold of that knife lol. And believe you me brother, the last thing I would ever accuse you of is fanboyism lol. The thing is...Mr. Masamoto probably has a heat treat system down that is more controlled, and takes better advantage of the steel. Whether it be white steel, blue steel, green steel, pink steel, purple or orange steel...or any other color steel under the sun...thermal cycling and heat treat is EVERYTHING.

I am 150% certain my friend that using inferior flour, poor yeast, and a backyard oven...you will make far better bread than I...regardless of me having the best ingredients and equipment on earth. Unless I get very, very lucky anyhow.

 

Black steel?? ump
This is why I dont care about carbonics barbicides and other vandalisation that is in the steel, its your job. What I want is a thriller.

Shoot me an atomic PM with your details and Im sure to be posting the slicer out at the beginning of june.

 

Yes sir lol! PM incoming .

 

Some of the most "scary sharp" knives I've sharpened were AS steel. I don't know lick about carbides and how metals come together to create these cool things I collect/use. But I sure enjoy reading about them.
But I'll say this again, AS steel gets too sharp for me. Like I enjoy it but it makes me a little nervous.

As for tamahagane steel, I'd like to hear more about it. It sound SO romantic...

 

Sigh,
my comment above was made before I read the second page to this thread. Which for some reason did Not show up until AFTER I posted my somewhat irrelevant thoughts.
Ugh, I'm tired of traveling. ..

 

Lol Marc! The only problem with AS is that most people who use it to make blades don't heat treat it properly lol. The edge of ANY knife can only be as fine as the LARGEST carbide (NOT the largest grain as people commonly believe!). The reason for this is because large, improperly treated carbides tear out, leaving large holes in the edge. White steels have it easier, because there aren't any carbides (other than iron/carbon lol) in pure iron and carbon! If there are no carbides, the edge can be VERY fine...but it won't hold it very long in comparison to similarly sharpened, properly treated alloyed steel.

As for tamahagane lol...the only place in today's world for it...in my opinion...is for art swords forged traditionally by registered Japanese smiths. The modern steels we have today are simply superior in most every way.