Am I missing something?

Looking to get better at free hand sharpening. I was researching some gyutos to purchase and practice on. Nothing to crazy but i feel like stainless wouldn't be good to practice on and just wear out stones.

My question is a lot of the websites dont tell what angle the blade is or what type of bevel it is? When we say double bevel do we mean it has a primary edge sharpened over a secondary bevel? or do we mean it is 15deg on each side per say? V grind, chisel grind, convex grind, etc.

So if I order a Tojiro ITK Shirogami Wa-Gyuto 210mm ($60), do i need to know what the edge should be or is that up to me, the user?

Sheesh so much to learn my head hurts
Thanks in advance!

 

Dave Martell (Japanese knife sharpening, one of our venders) has a DVD that explains a lot about the angles... Im just trying to learn myself and I got a lot from it. also Jon from japanese knife imports (also a vender) has a lot of videos on his website that explains a lot as well

 

James said it! Dave's video and Jon's youtube channel/website are great places to start.

That said...every combination of blade geometry and thickness, thickness behind the edge, steel make up, and heat treat is going to have a different optimum edge angle. Your own knives you're making will be very much different than say, my knives, or Dave's knives. Added to that, the product you're intending to cut plays a part as well. If you REALLY want to get into it, your board material and your cutting technique will also .

If you're wanting to make kitchen knives my friend...the rabbit hole is very, very, very deep lol.

Honestly, as I mentioned in my reply to your PM...you're mostly going to have to explore on your own. I know what my own steel and heat treat can support, but for me to answer you with my numbers wouldn't do you any good at all.

 

Single vs double bevel: I'll post an image from Gator's excellent website, Zknives.com, that will illustrate the difference; the two on the left are double bevel, the one on the right is single bevel. Generally speaking, gyutos, nakiris, sujihikis and petty knives are double bevel; yanagibas, debas and usubas are single bevel, though there are exceptions. The Tojiro gyuto you are looking to purchase is a double bevel blade of the warikomi type - the hagane is shirogami (Hitachi white paper steel) while the jigane is highly reactive soft iron with a kurouchi finish. The edge is a v-grind at a nominal 15 degrees per side. It is customary for the user to fine tune the edge angle to their preference using trial and error. If you are looking for an inexpensive knife to use for practice sharpening, it is a good choice, as the steel is very easy to sharpen. On the other hand, if you are looking to actually use the knife on food, particularly acidic foods, you would be better off looking for a different knife because of the reactive iron cladding. For probably more information than you care to read at one sitting, go look at Zknives at http://zknives.com/index.shtml

 

I think I saw that Dave's DVD is out of stock.

Here are some videos from Jon at Japanese Knife Imports

http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/media-and-news-center/

 

I feel the rabbit hole is deeper than I thought. Thanks for all the input!

 

just saw a bunch of tanaka 190mm gyutos on ebay for under the price of the tojiro. I would highly recommend one of those over the tojiro.

 

Rick's post above provides excellent guidance. The other thing I would add is, trust yourself. Rick mentioned trial and error. Go ahead and sharpen a knife on the stones, and see what you think. Feel the edge with your fingers and try cutting. If you don't like it, try again.

 

At the beginning, let your hands find the angle they are most comfortable with. Dont be obsessive with keeping it. You can fight it but it is lost battle. Usually the angle you sharpen both sides at differs and thats OK.
I sharpen right hand side holding the handle in my right hand, and left side holding the handle in my left. Left sides angle is higher and for a purpose. I dont say that to give you the impression of what has to be done, theres no rules! Your objective is to have a sharp, stabil edge and unscratched faces. Howyou get there, is your business. I dont think videos helps in gaining skill, practical exercise does!
When you have enough practice and you keep your intuitive angle steady, it will be much easier to lower it as you wish, cause you will have the understanding and control.
So doesnt matter what you sharpen, doesnt matter if your stones are totally hundred percent flat or not. The stones brand or grit.
Just do it.

To answer the question, each double bevel knife has secondary bevel/edge and an primary bevel/edge on both sides. Japanese knives happen to have more complex geometry [no full flat grind] but the overall idea is similar.
It might happen that one side is flat or nearly so - also in japanese made knives, then said face as a whole is your secondary edge. As it is flat it doesnt need maintaining [thinning] as all of that happens to the other side.
That by itself has nothing to do with determining the angle at which you sharpen. As above, its the sharpeners choice and decision. I dont think the angle itself is the most important to me the ease of cutting comes from the thinness above primary edge.

 

I love this. Everything said is true...but this is the most important part to me. In the end...whether the edge is 10°, or 20°...it doesn't matter if the shoulder is a mile wide.

 

Thanks for all the tips. Im looking at the tanaka 190s on eBay now.

 

Those Tanakas on Ebay most are VG10, I would avoid those and make sure you get one in blue steel.

 

I found Tanaka's vg10 to be pretty good; his blue steel knives, of course, are easier to sharpen.

 

Tanaka knows how to HT vg10 properly. I gifted several knives to my non knife nuts relatives and sharpen them once a year. Even despite all the abuse that knives are seeing on most russian kitchen, those Tanaka knives are working great. The biggest issue so far was broken 2mm from the tip. No chipping at all.

Only yesterday I sharpened 3 stainless knives, one in SLD, another in AEBL and Tanaka's vg10. SLD took a little bit more time, but vg10 and AEBL were equally easy to sharpen.