Newbie Photography??

You are not the only photo newbie here, I am still earning how to do it properly!
Nice diy light box!

Amateur advice time
When I got my used Nikon I had to change a lot of settings the previous owner had set, so check all the settings on the camera if you haven't already, stuff like the Image Quality and Image Size and everything in the menus really, the last owner might have had it set up for a specific task that doesn't suit your needs.

Not sure if you are using a tripod or not but it will make a big difference to those close up shots, a remote shutter release will help as well so you are not actually in contact with the camera to cause any vibrations, although you can use the built in timer to open the shutter as well which you could try straight away with the camera sitting on something solid rather than handheld(if you don't have a tripod)
Also if you are on a tripod I would turn off the VR on the 18-55mm and definitely turn it off on the Tamron macro I sent you as it will not be needed and the VR/VC on the Tamron will actually make the image look like it's moving about on the rear screen.
You could also try Live View mode and maybe manual focus on the lens to get the bits you want nice and sharp.

Just stuff I have tried in the beginning and no pro knowledge here so feel free to correct anything I have said guys

 

Hey Chris, when can you come over and take some pictures of my blocks?

 

And remember if you're using a dominant black background, the camera's meter will try to push exposure up to achieve a more neutral overall scene...you can switch to a spot meter or try to guesstimate the overall +/-EV and compensate that way.

The coin pics are not bad for the kit lens. I never tried it for that, but clearly it's not terrible if not going super small.

 

Yeah...I've been going over the manual online while holding the camera in my hand. Doing so found me a number of invaluable menu options that I didn't have the first night, lol. For example, I thought it was going to be horribly tedious to have to go to the main menu to mess with ISO and exposure etc EVERY time (and it seems to need adjusted often lol) I wanted to do something slightly different. Turns out in the bottom left corner there's a button that opens a menu specifically for quick changing important things like that.

I also started a quick reference journal for myself. What I'm going to do is take dozens of pictures of the same scene, noting the settings of each, and leaving space under them for notes. Then when I go to my computer to view them (or I may just set my laptop up direct to the camera) I can note the differences with each. Once I get that done I'll change some of the colors in the scene around and do it again. I know its not going to help me a TON (as soon as anything changes, everything changes lol), but it will definitely build in the muscle memory that will get me around the camera more quickly, along with some small idea of how each setting works both alone and somewhat together...which will help me work things out more instinctively.

Haha! If you were closer, I'd definitely try!!

Good to know! I need to read some on how the metering modes work, as those seem to be the biggest factor in colors and exposure jumping all over the place. Like you said, a white or grey card is probably my best bet. I was just hoping that the auto settings would help me get through that in the short term while I'm getting used to the camera. No such luck it seems, lol.

Here's a bunch of others I took in the medium sized box last night. I'm going to be sad when this handle is gone, lol!



I can see looking at them here that sometimes things I wanted IN focus, were out. This is where I would change the aperture setting if I were in manual mode yes? To help increase depth of field? I know how close you are to the subject has a large impact (even more than aperture from what I've read?) on depth of field as well....but I think that getting used to this lens AND trying to push it to one extreme of its capabilities isn't the most efficient way to learn this stuff, lol.

Out of the pictures I took of the handle last night, these were the ones worth correcting for color etc. Many were too blown out on the facets to be usable.

Anyhow, off to mail James' knife, and get some polishing done on Lance's .

 

Very nice. One word of advice beyond the photography: I regularly have handles that I inspect closely and find them perfectly fine when I look at them with my reading glasses on. On a blown-up detail photo I will see all kinds of little imperfections that I did not notice before. It's always about finding a balance between perfection and what you can stand behind. If you want to make every handle perfect based on the photos, you will work on them forever... Just my 2 cts.

That said, the ray skin is a nice idea, I am still struggling with the backgrounds. the most neutral was a grey cardboard, but it is also quite boring. On the other hand, you don't want the background to distract. I tried black fabric and black velvet - the velvet being nice but it drives me nuts that you see every little dust particle in the photos. Still gotta play more with that...

Just read your post: Larger aperture numbers = more depth. But because you want to keep the ISO as low s possible, this also means longer exposure times. This is where the tripod becomes important. I usually try to set things up and then use the 2-sec timer to shoot, avoids camera movement.

Stefan

 

Cris, I had similar issues with a jerry-rigged 'tent' when was I was trying to get pics of your pass-around knife. I did not have enough available light to adequately light the knives through the cloth cover I had on hand. I would up breaking out a tripod and taking 1+ second exposures. I still need to do some post-processing work to them to get them fit for posting. Even harder is coming up with a good setup to clamp the knife in a manner where you can get good spine and edge shots (I was not able to do that before passing on the knife). For those of you who need to take knife pics on a regular basis in order to help generate/ support sales (and therefore your income), a dedicated tent setup with proper lights, etc. is a good investment.

 

I think your little set up looks just as useful as my tiny light tent and two slightly underpowered lights...ebay special...... Now I'm using a dedicated macro, its just too cramped in there to arrange things so I like to work in a more open way, with mixture of screened lights and natural light.....lesson here is probably....get a nice big light tent......or just use a screened wall and lights with the screens suspended on the front so you can move them around in a larger space......Think thats what I will do when I have some more money to invest in it.

The little tent is great for the winter though when i need to get pics done and up on the site that night.

 

I understand completely lol...its like looking at your work under a microscope. Luckily for me, a few marks here and there, to me...don't take away from the 'perfection' of razor sharp lines and good geometry on a handle. They almost add a little bit of character back into something that might otherwise feel 'cold' to me. I strive for machine quality perfection at first look, but on inspection I want people to be able to see that these things were made with human hands. It's kind of a hard dynamic to describe in words, but I know when a handle is finished because it feels that way, not necessarily because it looks any certain way.

I actually have a 60" collapsible tent (pictured below) I got in the mail yesterday lol. It's so big its actually useless with anything short of halogen flood lamps. Not to mention it came with a hole in the side so it's getting returned anyhow. I'll probably order a 30" version of the same tent, and pick up a few more lights if necessary.


For scale, understand that I can stand in it and not have to crouch much. I bought the bigger one partly because I wanted to be able to photograph swords as well...but it's just plain too freakin big. It's literally twice as tall, wide, and deep as the box I posted above.

I really need to get more used to using the tripod...but I have to move everything around so much right now that it'd take 45 minutes for one picture if I tried it that way. In addition, a lot of my pictures are from angles and AT angles to the work that I wouldn't even know how to start achieving with a tripod.

I agree about the cramped thing, which is another reason why I thought the bigger one would be better lol. Almost like an enclosed studio unto itself, that I could arrange spotlights, absorbers, and reflectors INSIDE of to gain my desired effect, all while having nice constant even lighting from the outside. Unfortunately though I don't have the space for a 5'x5'x5' tent any more than I have room for an open studio lol. It's definitely something I'll have to figure out though. I mean, outside of general photography and all...what is paying for this is pictures of my knives.

 

You are killing me with those pictures of that handle Cris. God does it look beautiful.

 

Thanks Lance! I'm very happy you like it!! Your saya is finished this afternoon, and all that's left is to repolish the blade (a few hours work) and it's ready to send to Julio.

Just think!! All the help I'm getting here ensures that the first full on pictures of your blade will be top notch .

 

Holy crap, he's done with the saya already?

 

Nooo...lol. The leather one. I'll send you a PM.

 

The closer you get to things, the harder it'll be to get good focus, even at smaller apertures. My coin photo, for example:

was at f/16 (quite small aperture).

With the light box/tent arrangements...I'm afraid my advice will be pretty limited. An hour of experimentation with the lights does a lot to help. Just remember that you don't always need or want your diffused light surfaces to be perfectly vertical.

You may also want to experiment with key/fill approaches, rather than trying to blast both sides equally.

Still, you're doing well and making good progress. I wouldn't be surprised if your sales go up as you develop more appealing ways to show off your work.

 

I love...love love love that picture. Seriously.

I do have a question about it? At that aperture, and I'm guessing a reasonably low ISO...did you just set the camera on the surface and then edit it to be in proper composition? I know we have a LOT of pixels to work with in these images (I can't even upload a full resolution picture to the site lol, the compression software won't handle it!), but I've been trying to frame everything in the viewfinder the way I want the final picture to be. Am I making a big deal out of nothing there? That's the main reason I have been skipping the tripod.

I'm definitely going to experiment with lighting. We talked about that a bit yesterday. Right now I'm just trying to be able to get clear pictures that look like I want them to, lol!! I've been a pencil artist, and a graphic artist for many years, so shadows and light are kind of a big deal to me. As a matter of fact, I kind of think of the world as a big coloring book. When I'm forging or grinding blades, I use how the light reflects to determine straight, flat, etc. The 'color' tells me what I need to know. This is why a lot of times I have to wait for the blade to get out of the IR temperatures to see what needs adjusted. When I was in construction, the same went for depth of trenches, or grading flat pads to build buildings on. You can tell by eye what is going on...based on the way the light reflects. Many of the things I do, I do based on making the colors all work...so in a way this photography stuff is right up my alley as far as the theory goes.

On a semi related note...I thought I'd share a bit of my artwork really quickly lol. Oddly enough the programs I used were a lot like taking pictures in some ways. Maya, 3Ds Max, and Poser all give a 'studio' with real lighting to use, and changing the lights pretty much changed everything. All of the post editing in Photoshop has really helped me here as well lol.

First the pictures:



Then a look at the 'studio'...or at least one room of it. Lighting is EVERYTHING in those programs.


Anyhow, fun stuff...and it's cool to see first hand how much of it is directly related.

 

As for the composition: I put the camera on a tripod, adjust distance and height to get the appropriate angle and frame size (this case it was close to minimum focus distance) and do as much composition as possible before pressing the shutter button...with the coin pic, I wanted to get just low enough to show the spine thickness accurately even in shadow while giving some view of the blade and coin top (and a little reflection of the coin on the vinyl). Higher and I could get more coin in focus but would sacrifice the edge-on look, and too low and much of the frame would be wasted. I decided a 2:1 aspect ratio would be better than 3:2, so I made sure it fit the frame that way and cropped it in PS. I like to use "standard" aspect ratios because I'm lazy and I have a lot of practice composing for those sizes.

I don't mind cropping down more if I don't get a chance to compose before taking the picture, but if I've got a tripod, I can try to do it the first time and limit how much trimming needs to be done. I guess the habit came from earlier days when I had less resolution to work with, and the fact that my computer is old and slow and I'm lazy.

 

That makes sense. I think part of it is that I'm not working on a table lol. The things I'm taking pictures of are on the floor, so to get dynamic shots at dynamic angles, I've got to be on the floor too .

I really do need to make a semi permanent place to do this stuff. I think it will improve my methods as much as anything else right now.

 

Hey Chris, ive done some research into photography in terms of knives as my knife making club wants me to give a talk on it. Not the I'm a professional photographer or anything.

The main thing with knives is the they are shiney and very reflective. Even those amazing handles of yours has surfaces the are reflective.

It can all get very complicated, but the old addage is true, photography is all about the light. And for knive photos we can control it fairly well as everyting is stationary.

Stationary is key. So get that camera on a tripod. There are cell phone tripod clamps available, so use these if using you phone's camera. The reason for this is so you can set the stage and have the exact same frame each time. Handheld you will never be in the exact same spot again, the hight or angle will be different and all the time spent postioning everything is wasted.

I like to prop the knife up at a slight angle. One it makes it more dramatic, but all allows you to control the reflective surfaces and seperates the knife from whatever you have it on / floor.

Once you have your knife angled and looking good composition wise in the frame. Position your reflectors to highlight with white or darken with black, until all the different reflective surfaces are lit how you'd lije. Remember your not lighting the knife, but what the knife is reflecting!

It can be a strange concept so here are some links.
http://petapixel.com/2014/11/25/amazing-product-photography-captured-smartphone-lamp-flashlights/
http://www.tamron.eu/fi/ajankohtaista/blog/moody-food-555/


once you get the idea and practise it enough, youll fine a lightbox very limiting.

Hope this helps you on your quest

 

Thanks for the tips! That's very much how I'd been doing with my cell phone, only with the sun as my light source. Using shade and absorbers, along with black drapes all around my shot...in order to get what I wanted. It was a complicated pita due to where and how I had to do it, and since the knife was on the ground, a tripod was out of the question to get dynamic handle shots etc. Shots like this:



I'm guessing I'll need to get this thing up on a table to get these kinds of shots with a tripod.

 

Thanks Ant_tops! That is a very revealing video. I love seeing how creating a shadow or a reflection impacts the photograph.

I've also got a question. Last weekend I made a couple of knife pictures. Including this one.



As you can see there is something terribly wrong with the colors: far too much saturation in some places, but ok in others. This happened to many of the photographs I made last weekend.

This has never happened to me before (to this amount) and I'm wondering what I did wrong. I shot the photographs outside on a sunny day, but I made sure I took all photographs in the shadows.

It was the first time I shot my photographs in RAW (Canon EOS 650D). And then automatically had them convert to DNG by Photoshop 6. Could this be a reason for these colors? I'm a bit clueless, since I don't have the original pictures on the camera anymore.

 

Mark, when I had pictures come out that way, adding a little warmth brought the colors around, without over saturating. Maybe try that?

Oddly, the only pictures I take that come out too 'cool'...are outside pictures taken in the shade.