Your Opinion: The best PM stainless steel you have used.

I agree. I think the HT is bad. And this is true rust. It keeps recurring when left overnight. Have to get it off with scotch brite or steel wool. Doesn't appear when I oil the blade after use. It was finished to 220. And I certainly will send you the blade Cris in the next couple weeks.

And here is another picture of the same blade last year during the humidity dried and left overnight.

 

That is crazy...non of my aebl blades have done that.

 

a maker was having pitting problems on the aebl XHP he was just startiingto use. i asked him if he had been using the same grinding belts for carbon steel blades? the responce was yes. i let him knkow he might have contaminated theh SS blades and cause the micro pitting

 

I've used quite a few knives in AEB-L (or 13C26). I've left many of them wet for quite some time. And I've never experienced rusting. So if you experience this in relatively dry conditions, there's something seriously wrong. I'm not enough of a metallurgist to be able to say whether it is the heat treament, but I must admit this is a good candidate.

I've used a knife by Cris in AEB-L which is great (I've only used it for a short while - I haven't even sharpened it - because he is making a new one for me with a different profile) and it doesn't experience any rust. Also Robin's AEB-L is great in all respects.

 

I am not extremely familiar with stainless steel, but I recommend chasing down Butch's suggestion first. Contamination is the most likely culprit and is a bit more tenacious than many realize; sensitization would be a distant second.

 

I was usin fresh belts on my shaping and finishing. I'm in favor of poor heat treating. Be that as it may, I and my chefs are way more pleased with CPM 154 CM and I have even higher hopes for XHP. I certainly do love my Spyderco with XHP.

 

for me XHP is killer and i run it at 63rc jsut so everyone knows

 

I have a CB in XHP and really like it. It feels like it holds an edge longer than aebl but aebl is easier to sharpen.

Going to try to sharpen R2 tonight.

 

CB?!? Cut Brooklyn?

 

Yes.

 

When did Joel start using XHP or is that a special order?

 

Actually one of his older blades. I dont know if he still uses or not.

 

CAR-TEC is still working on getting the XHP name nown by more makers and users. some makers stick with what the market "knows they want" rather if its more useful steel for the type knife. cant blame them we all know s30v gets more press then alot of other steels even if it woudl make a poor straight razor someo are made out of it

 

This is an AEBL blade hardened the same as my autopsy knife. However, this has sat in my knife roll in my dining room at 77 deg F temp and humidity controlled environment with Knives made of Elmax, M390, 19c28. None of the others got rust.

 

Stephen...your results are atypical, as we discussed. Until you figure out why, it's kind of...how to put it...misleading?...to state that AEB-L is the problem. AEB-L mixed with your processes could be an issue, but that doesn't mean AEB-L is bad steel. I think it's been proven time and again how great a steel it can be.

 

I don't think I ever said Anything other than I think the way AEBL is being hardened for me is the problem. That's why I won't use it because my heat treater does a bad job of it. They do an absolutely fabulous job on every other steel I use like M4, Elmax, M390, 20CV, 154. That's what drives my opinion about AEBL. You have a special way to do it, and consequently get much better performance and satisfaction from it. That is part of the art of knife making.

 

I don't think you're giving the impression on purpose my friend...but that is how it's coming across. The thread was linked to me by two people asking if this kind of thing was a problem with AEB-L in general, and my AEB-L knives in particular. I explained the situation as we discussed it, but without that background info it comes across as you believing the steel is poor (which if you recall is what you said when you asked me why I use it).

Again...I don't think you're purposefully saying it that way. It's just that someone uninformed might take it that way.

One other thing. I can't say for sure the heat treat IS the issue. It could be simply the level of finish those knives are at...or some combination of both. My AEB-L knives will rust when unhardened, or even when rough ground after hardening (though not easily). Since I don't sell them rough ground...it's a non-issue for me.

Just some things to think about.

 

I have 1 AEB-L knife, and it's pretty amazing. It doesn't stain and it holds an edge amazingly well. It's Mr. Lucretia's knife now, along with a couple of my SG2 Ryusens, and in spite of the fact that he can chip a knife cutting warm butter and is known to leave his knife lying around in nasty things until after dinner, its edge has held up beautifully and it remains stain free. I would put its edge holding ability up with SG2. The other day it got a light touchup on a ceramic rod and the edge is right back to where it should be. The interesting thing is that I've talked to someone who has an AEB-L knife from the same maker and is underwhelmed by both its stain resistance and its edge holding ability. Could be that how the maker holds his tongue during heat treat has an effect. But I'd have to say that my experience with the steel is only positive.

 

I've followed this thread with a fair amount of interest. Pennman, my impression so far has been to see a range of posts, some of which have been critical of the AEB-L that you've had issues with, but other posts seem to be a more general indictment of AEB-L. Over the years, I've generally seen some posts that it is only a mediocre steel when not heat treated well, but also those that say it is among the top stainless steels when heat treated well (though I would have never expected a lot of discussion about it in a thread about favorite PM steels, but perhaps an example that is well heat treated, such as Devin's would be a good benchmark to compare to. Anyway, Pennman, glad that you clarified that your posts are specific to the AEB-L you've had issues with, rather than the steel in general. I can't remember too many instances of others having rust issues with it. I'm still a bit perplexed that there have been so many issues when the heat treater has been following Bohler's recommended procedures, particularly since the heat treatment on other steels has been much more successful. Guess this one will just leave me scratching my head a bit.
As for PM steels I've actually used, I've been very pleased with Butch's XHP, as well as Yoshikane's SLD. Soon I'll have a Sukenari ZDP gyuto to use as well.

 

Interesting thread. I'm personally not a fan of high carbide and wear resistant steels. I'm making a couple elmax knives currently though which will be interesting. But a few notes on aeb-l. 60 hrc will dull way to quickly for my taste, also aeb-l need cryo imo. And then there's the precision thing. I would suspect penmans heat treaters gear is not precise enough. My heat treater have some insane tolerances in their furnace and they calibrate a couple of times every year, they have like +-3-4 deg c difference within their chamber which is very difficult if not impossible to get to in a "regular" kiln like most knifemakers use. The custom build kiln I have on order is supposed to be accurate only to +-10 deg c, maybe and hopefully closer with the solid state relay upgrade to not have the hard on/off thing, but anyway I may well be sticking with the great heat treatment I get outsourced... Oh boy my english Sure a "good enough" heat treat does well or great for most people, but different heat tretments can really make a huge difference in the same steel. So much so I value heat treatment over steel choice.